Ep 76. Becoming the Hero of Your Own Story, The Alchemy of Mythology with Kwame Scruggs

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Episode Summary:

In this episode of The Creative Genius Podcast, Kate Shepherd speaks with Kwame Scruggs, the founder of Alchemy Inc., a nonprofit using the transformative power of mythology to inspire and uplift communities. Kwame shares his incredible journey, from working at Goodyear for 15 years while earning his degrees at night to founding Alchemy Inc. He highlights the wisdom we can gain from myths, including how they can help us identify the subconscious beliefs that may be holding us back.

Kwame is life work revolves around the transformative power of mythology and creative expression.  Born and raised in Akron, Ohio. He started his career at Goodyear. Where he worked for 15 years at night while earning his M S in technical education with an emphasis on guidance and counseling. Because as you'll hear this man is somebody who really cares about others and has a passion for helping. His passion for helping others was always there, but it wasn't until he discovered the works of Carl Young. Joseph Campbell and Michael Meade. That he found his true purpose.

In this episode, Kwame references the powerful myth of the Firebird, which inspired Kate to create a guided meditation that allows listeners to personally interact with mythology for self-reflection. This episode dives deep into how we can use ancient stories to uncover hidden aspects of ourselves, shift our perspectives, and step into the role of hero in our own lives.

You’ll also learn about Kwame’s experiences working with high school dropouts and youth, as well as his work that was recognized by the Presidents Award  and his Ph.D. in Mythological Studies. His life’s work revolves around reminding people that myths hold transformative power to help us all grow and heal.

If you feel like there’s a gap between your visions and your real-world results, this episode is for you. Kwame Scruggs shows us how myths can bridge that gap and help us uncover what’s holding us back.

Key Topics Discussed:

• Kwame’s journey from tire factory worker to Ph.D. and nonprofit founder
• The myth of the Firebird and its transformative power
• How to work with mythology to uncover subconscious beliefs
• Kwame's impactful work with youth through Alchemy Inc.
• Kate’s guided meditation inspired by the myth of the Firebird
• The importance of showing up for your purpose, even when the road is long and winding

Resources Mentioned:

• Alchemy Inc. (Kwame’s nonprofit organization)
• The Myth of the Firebird
• Kate’s Guided Meditation & Reflection Packet on the Firebird
• Kwame’s Recommended Readings: Carl Jung, Joseph Campbell, Michael Meade

Take Action!
If you’re intrigued by the idea of using myths for self-reflection, check out my guided Firebird meditation and reflection packet on my Patreon. You’ll also find a growing library of resources, including bonus episodes, guided meditations, and more, designed to support your creative journey.

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FULL TRANSCRIPT

Hello, there it's me. Kate Sheppard, your host of the creative genius podcast. To our returning listeners. It's always, truly wonderful to have you here. And a warm welcome if you're just joining us for the first time. Maybe a friend recommended. A special moment.

They heard on this show or you and I met at Granville island and my Coover. And I told you about it. Or you discovered the show on Instagram or maybe even dreamed about it. However you found your way here. I believe it's no accident you're meant to be here. You're meant to hear something important to hear today. And I'm so glad you're here.

I've been reflecting a lot lately on choices and priorities and purpose. Even when we're sure we've found our calling. The path to realizing it can feel anything but straightforward.

It's more like a winding journey than a straight line , the road from inspiration to mastery. You might have had a vivid vision for creating a project, painting a book, or even a podcast. Yet. Real life obstacles, whether skills or circumstances or time. It seemed to get in the way of bringing it to life.

It can be really, really frustrating and even disorienting and demoralizing. I have felt that way, many times in my own journey. And been tempted to give out more than once. When things didn't seem to manifest in the real world, as they appear to me in my own heart. And recently I was experiencing one of those moments. Trying to juggle everything I'm responsible for and bring my creative visions to life at the same time. And nothing was turning out. Has I'd imagined. I was having some big give up moments. And then my conversation with today's guest, Kwame Scruggs came at just the right time. Kwame shared wisdom that cleared a path in my own inner landscape that reminded me to keep going.

And I'm so grateful for that. And I have a feeling so many of the things he says today in this conversation will resonate with you too.

Kwame is life work revolves around the transformative power of mythology and creative expression. Born and raised in Akron, Ohio. He started his career at Goodyear. Where he worked for 15 years at night while earning his M S in technical education with an emphasis on guidance and counseling. Because as you'll hear this man is somebody who really cares about others and has a passion for helping. His passion for helping others was always there, but it wasn't until he discovered the works of Carl Young. Joseph Campbell and Michael Meade. That he found his true purpose. Kwame was introduced to me by Lisa Marciano, who you may remember from episode 70, where we discussed her incredible book, the vital spark. And if for whatever reason, you haven't listened to that episode yet, go back and listen to that episode.

It's incredible. It's all about reclaiming our outlier energies. You know, the parts of us that we think are maybe unacceptable for public consumption. And how they're usually the missing thing. In our lives.

So at the end of our conversation, I asked Lisa to. Recommend somebody , who she thought I would have an equally wonderful conversation with.

And she didn't even hesitate. She introduced me to Kwame. That same afternoon. Kwame began facilitating groups for high school, dropouts and youth in 1998 using mythological stories and a gem bay drum to help them become the heroes of their own lives. His work , let him to earn a PhD in mythological studies with an emphasis on depth psychology. And eventually to found alchemy Inc, a nonprofit organization recognized for its innovative programs. Kwame his work has impacted over 2000 individuals and earned him numerous accolades. Including the president's committee, national arts and humanities youth program award presented to him by none other than Michelle Obama. Kwame also serves on the board of the Joseph Campbell foundation and is known for his engaging style and creative use of myth to inspire dialogue and life changing moments.

In today's episode, we'll delve into how we can work with myths to uncover subconscious beliefs. That may be holding us back. One myth that Kwame references several times is the myth of the Firebird, which really struck a chord with me. So I went down a little bit of a rabbit hole researching it. And after recording the episode with Kwame, I felt inspired to create something really special for you using the myth of the Firebird. So I put together a gorgeous guided meditation experience for you. That lets you access the wisdom of the Firebird myth firsthand. It's a beautiful audio journey where I guide you through a fragrant pine forest. Immersing yourself in the sounds and the smells and the light of the woods. And where we encounter the Firebird together. Following the meditation, you can download the reflection packet I've put together, filled with thought provoking questions designed to help you explore your own inner landscape.

I wanted to create something that would help you play with mythology to help uncover some of your own hidden beliefs, intentions, and stuck points that may be influencing the way you're making choices and navigating your life.

It's a beautiful little offering. That I hope will open doors to some meaningful self-reflection for you. This meditation is part of my growing Patrion library, which I'm thrilled to add it to this week. The library is filled with dozens of other resources, activities, guided meditations, journaling, worksheets. And workshops.

I know life can get busy.

So I've designed all of these to be flexible and accessible, allowing you to show up whenever you feel called and dive into the content and activities that most resonate with you in that moment. It's not a structured program. You have to follow rather a collection of supportive tools that help you explore what's going on beneath the surface. In a gentle and safe way. To all my existing Patrion supporters.

Thank you for being part of this journey with me. And if you're not yet a member, but you would like to join access all this content you can do. So by heading over to patrion.com/creative genius podcast and joining our community.

Along with meditations and other resources. You'll also receive private bonus episodes where I share behind the scenes updates and insights. Every other week.

As you may know, I am a working artist, my creation support me and my two children and this podcast in many ways. So if you're looking for a special gift, maybe for yourself or someone you love. I'd love for you to consider a piece of my work. Original paintings and fine art prints. As well as my beloved pebble bellies. If you don't know what a pebble valley. is, you're in for a real treat. You can head over to Kate Sheppard, creative.com and find out. You'll also find my nature inspired jewelry.

I love morning moon.com, where I offer Sterling silver necklaces and earrings featuring extraordinary textures from nature like Cedar branches and sea urchin shells. I hope you'll keep my work in mind. Your support helps sustain my art career and this podcast. And while you're visiting, don't forget to sign up for my newsletters on both of the websites, because I do a monthly giveaway every month where I give away a piece of my work to somebody who's on my list.

And it could be you. Now let's dive in to this gorgeous conversation with Kwame Scruggs. I have a feeling. There are some life-changing moments waiting for you just to head.

Here we go

audioKateShepherd21056285803: It's really nice to meet --------you.

audiokwamescruggs11056285803: It's

a pleasure. It's a pleasure. Thank you.

okay, so I know about you and know about your work, but for people who are just meeting you for the first time today,

I'm from Akron, Ohio, that's that was rubber capital of the world. Okay. Back then. So I graduated on a graduated high school on a Thursday, started working a good year the following Monday. So I started working there part time in the mail room. Low as you could go.

That's as low as you could go. I think after about three months, I got offered a full time job. In the mail room, and, uh, so I went to school in the evening. So it took me 15 years to graduate, you know, get my bachelor's degree. I majored in commercial art for a while. And then I changed, I probably changed the major about five or six times going in the evening.

And, uh, long story short, , uh, graduated. In 1991, so then I quit Goodyear, I took a buyout, , ended up getting a graduate assistantship at the University of Akron, worked there for five years, but I went through an African based rites of passage when I was maybe 35. And that's introduced to, , African spirituality, but the work of Carl Jung, I got introduced to the work of Jung and Joseph Campbell. I was reading Campbell's Power Myth. His one sentence, when you follow your bliss. Doors open where you thought there'd be no doors.

Well, prior to that, I had read Michael Mead's Men in the Water of Life. All right. So I read this book four and a half times. Mead told a myth and he gave his interpretation of the myth. And that just helped me to understand so much about my life.

I'm like, wow. From reading a myth. And so then at the time at the university of Akron, I was running parent workshops and working with, middle school and high school youth preparing for college

audioKateShepherd21056285803: Because that was your, that was your degree, right? You had, you were doing like guidance counseling is at that point.

audiokwamescruggs11056285803: yeah, my degrees in technical education. Okay, what's my bachelor's degree. Like I said, I was in school for 15 years and I majored in quite a few. And so then I'm like, I got to get out of the school. so, I found whatever was the quickest for me to get, get out. I wanted to get my master's in counseling, but it's just going to take too long. So, uh, community counseling. So then I get end up getting a master's in technical education with an emphasis in guides and counseling. Okay. , so I was running 10 parent workshops a year and, and work with the youth.

After I read Mead's book, it, like I say, he would tell a myth, give his interpretation of the myth. First two myths dealt with the father son relationship. Second two dealt with the mother son relationship. , I just understood so much about my life. And I was walking past my office window and I'm like, wow, I'm going to start using this with the parents and the youth.

Okay. Fast forward. I'm, , reading Joseph Campbell's Power Myth, that one sentence when you follow your bliss doors open when you thought there'd be no doors. I was 38 years old, staring out my office window. I asked myself, what was my bliss? I asked myself, what did I want to do? Not what could I do? What did I want to do?

My exact words were play my drum and tell mythological stories. Okay. So internet had just come out. I asked secretary, could she find me a place that offered a PhD in mythology? She couldn't find any place. Uh, she found Ohio state offered a PhD in folklore and somewhere else. And I'm, so I was just like, forget it.

I can't remember the time span. A friend of mine came into my office through this magazine on my desk, common boundaries. Okay. I still got it in my office. He's his exact words, Kwame has some interesting ads and articles in here. I'm flipping through, I see Pacifica Graduate Institute, a school that offers a master's and Ph.

D. in mythological studies with an emphasis in depth psychology. And I'm like, I can't move to California. I'm married, son was like four years old . I remember getting on the speakerphone to call them to tell them to send me a catalog. They sent me a catalog on. March 7th, three, three, seven, number 10, new beginning.

Okay. I remember, I remember now this is like 1997. I remember going to bed with that catalog. I couldn't put that catalog down for like three days. So then my job paid for me to go out to Santa Barbara for the conference because I was using myth and, ,

I was sitting in a room because I because I made an appointment to see one of the instructors at Pacifico. . I've only felt a spirit like maybe three times in my life. I'm sitting in this room by myself in a high top chair, and I felt a spirit just like said, Oh, Okay. And it's like, this is where you're supposed to be.

Okay. And so, long story short, I ended up going to Pacifica, traveling back and forth from Akron, Ohio out to Santa Barbara, California once a month. Ended up doing it three years, ten months out of the year. Got the degree. Master's degree, mythological studies, emphasis in depth psychology. Then I left Akron U. After five years because I didn't have enough vacation, okay, to keep going back and forth to California. So I did the first year, then I quit here again. No job in sight. No job in sight. So I was, uh, Working with school dropouts, Akron and Cleveland, I had got a contract through these brothers who had a non profit.

And so, I was working about, I don't know, three or four charter schools in Akron and Cleveland. And I'm like, all these dudes doing is getting me the contracts so I can get my own non profit, okay? And get the contracts myself. And I didn't really know what an executive director did.

Okay. I'm just like, I'll get to nonprofit. So, uh, end up starting nonprofit. I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. I was running five groups at this middle school. And Akron, uh, and the Knight foundation had given this middle school 5 million for afterschool programs.

The previous year, the next year I got to nonprofit. And then that next year, 2004, when I started alchemy. Just in the right place at the right time. the kids loved it. Okay.

audioKateShepherd21056285803: What were you doing with the kids?

audiokwamescruggs11056285803: myths, . Let me, let me back up a little bit. From the start of Goodyear, mail room, that was as low as you could go. My earliest images of childhood, I'm 66, I was born in 58. My earliest images of childhood, and I'm going to answer your question. What's, uh, seeing, uh, Skin of blacks being beaten, the water hoses, the dogs, everything I saw on TV, we were butler, slaves, clowns, so I really internalized that I was less than due to the color of my skin.

So, with the youth, now let's fast forward. 40, 50 years, whatever. I wanted to make certain that they didn't feel the same way I did because of the color of their skin. So, uh, with the after school program, the other students, you know, they got the snacks and stuff, but alchemy, we went out and got our own snacks and like, uh, Everything I did, you know, it was like top of the line, you know, with them just to, to value them.

So basically we did a lot of drumming. Okay. So like for after school programs, so we did drumming and then we just did a myth. We do, uh, I lived off Michael Mee's work for probably about five or seven years. So. I would tell a portion of myth beat of a drum. We have questions for each part of the myth.

They have journals and we just we just talk about life through the myths. So the reason why I was doing myths because when I have to read meets book, what I found is that if you tell somebody. directly they're doing something wrong. It's just natural to become defensive. But if you tell them through a method, through a story, it removes you from the situation and it allows you to look at the situation objectively.

So what our, what our method, there's no right or wrong answers. Okay. It's just to create discussion and to get them to just think and then incorporate the character traits of the hero into their own lives. So basically we just tell them, tell them Uh, myth to the beat of a drum portion of the myth. Stop at critical points.

Ask what resonates. We have questions for each portion of the myth and we'll work through the myth. And then these youth, I just supposed to have them for three years. We ended up getting some other money. So I ended up keeping them.

Six to eighth grade, but then we got that other money. I'm like, wow, let's keep these youth today, graduate from high school. So I had it for seven years. And if we combine, we combine them with this other, school, because they were like the same age. And a lot of them went to both these schools.

So that was my first core group, uh, graduated in 2011. You

audioKateShepherd21056285803: did you see in these kids?

audiokwamescruggs11056285803: don't see it right away. You don't see it right away.

audioKateShepherd21056285803: Was there, is there a kid that stands out when you look back at that time that that first cohort of kids

audiokwamescruggs11056285803: It's, it's, it's quite a few. So that first cohort, it was like 28 of them. Okay. So they're like. 30 years old. They're 30 and 31 years old right now. But that first cohort is 28 of them. 26 of 28 graduated high school on time. 24 of that 26 went to college up to this date. I think 15, 13 or 15. Have bachelor's degrees, five have master's degrees.

One has to do an MBA and George doctored who sits on our board right now. So, so, you know, they're just doing great. And so many, while I was just talking to one of them last week. We're just talking about, you know, how he ran into about five of them and they got together.

This was about three months ago or whatever. Um, and just saying the impact of alchemy. So what I've seen, um, it's just how they, Incorporate those myths into their lives. You carry the traits of the hero. You're making sacrifices, you overcoming the obstacles, persevering, asking for help. Okay. So, uh, the one thing, you know, I gave you the graduation stats.

I think most of those youth would have been okay with or without, with or without alchemy. But like 85 percent of the youth in our program didn't have fathers in their lives. The thing I'm most, the thing I'm most proud of is to date about. Six or seven of my fathers and just to see how much they are in the lives of their children because so many of the myths deal with father son, you know, a parent child relationships.

So, so that's the transformation that you see. And then, and then the piece about the hero. You know, it got the three phases to separation where you leave your known environment. That second phase initiation where you learn, you know, learn a different trials and tribulations of life. And then the third is the return when you, when you, you go out, you leave because you're going out to get that boom, you know, to capture something.

But the third phase is the return is bringing that water life back to your community. And, uh, that's, that's it. That's one of the things I see in the youth is their willingness to give back, to give back in some sort of way. And like I'd always tell them, They don't necessarily have to do it every day for a living, but make certain in one way or another, you give back.

Seeing them incorporate the character traits of the hero and their own lives and persevering,

audioKateShepherd21056285803: , is that the, and I want to use the word alchemy of, of, of mythology is the, seeing yourself in a, in a context where there, where there's like a formula for success.

audiokwamescruggs11056285803: There you go. There you go. Those myths been around thousands and thousands and thousands of years. Okay. So they roadmap their roadmaps and navigate our way through lives. Okay. And so then they see,, through the myths and through the conversations, because a lot of the things that we share in that circle is pretty deep.

So they come to see, that if you just stick it out and hang in there, , you too can become the hero within your own story. I grew up on the west side of Akron on Store Avenue between Lawton and Slauson. Okay. And the one thing that's important is that when you quote unquote, make it, you come back, you come back, so that the youth can see.

That is that quote unquote success is possible. Houston Smith and it's in his book, , World Religion said, the best way to train a wild elephant is to yoke it to one that's already been through the process. This way the wild one comes to see, though startlingly different, it is still viable. Okay, so wow.

So the youth, they just get to see, from just us sharing our personal stories and the things we've been through, they see the, wow. Uh, like my one buddy told me, he said, Hey, if Kwame can do it, I know I can.

Okay. So, so they just come to see that success is possible if you stick it out. Dan Millman, in his book, Laws of Spirit said, as humans, we very seldom fail. We merely stop trying.

audioKateShepherd21056285803: That is so true. Yeah. I feel like collectively right now we are in a moment of like a big collective stop trying, right? Like we're in a kind of nosedive. And, uh, I feel oddly hopeful because I know through even just my own interactions with mythology and stories and formulas, like there is a dark time.

There's always, you know, the dark before the dawn. So there's a part of me that's oddly kind of excited that we're so close to hitting bottom.

audiokwamescruggs11056285803: Yes.

audioKateShepherd21056285803: Because,

audiokwamescruggs11056285803: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

audioKateShepherd21056285803: But, in this moment, you know, for people who are feeling really disconnected and unloved and unworthy and, you know, a lot of the stuff that you talk about internalizing when you were a child, people who are coming up today who still feel those things, how can we use creativity and, and this work to heal ourselves?

audiokwamescruggs11056285803: Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, I talked to a therapist today, same therapist that I've had for the last seven years. And, uh what I'm was going through. Uh, you know, I can use past tense now, but just moving here to new york was the 2nd most challenging period of my life.

Okay. And what got me through was my, my, my therapist and the myths and the myths. Okay. So like you say, it's that dark, it's that dark moment, but here again, going back to quotes, it's the deep waters that make better swimmers. Okay. It's the deep waters that make better swimmers. Smooth waters. Don't make for a good sailor.

And so it's, it's in these times it's adversity that introduces a person to themselves. Okay. So, so it's at these moments when you find out you know who you are and and like you say hitting rock bottom and like I tell the youth. The one cool thing about hitting rock bottom. It gives you a solid foundation to stand on.

Okay. All right. So, so it's about, it's about that perseverance and never giving up, never giving up despite the odds, you know, before you. And it's like, here again, back like Campbell said, when you follow your bliss doors open, where you thought there'd be no doors leap and the net shall appear. Okay. So you just got to keep chipping away and chipping away a little bit at a time.

Like, my cousin told me when I was, like I said, I was in school for 10 years, my nickname, cowboy. And he's like, cowboy. He said, 10 years from now, you're going to be 10 years older anyway. So you might as well be 10 years older with your degree. Okay. So the thing is you want to, you want to always look long term.

You want to look long term and just see where you want to be. a year, five, 10 years from now, and you just chip away at it a little bit, a little bit at a time.

audioKateShepherd21056285803: When you realized that your purpose had everything to do with your djembe and the myths, and you had that knowing, wasn't there a part of you that was like, no, that doesn't make sense. I can't make a life out of that. How do I,

audiokwamescruggs11056285803: please, please. So, when I first heard, told people that that's what I was going to do for a living, they like, who in the, it's gonna pay you to play your drama, tell mythological stories. And so, Going out to Pacifica and they like, why, why are you, why are you getting a degree in myth? What are you going to do with a degree in myth?

And so people question you so much you start to doubt yourself. And I'll never forget. I was flying home on a red eye one time from LA to Cleveland. And the question was not what will you do with a degree in myth. The question for me became what won't I do with the degree in myth.

Okay, here again, he's been around 1000, 000, 000 years, there's really not a subject that a myth can't done tackle. Okay. So, uh, did I have doubts? Yeah, I had doubts. But here again, uh, how am I going to tell these youth to believe in things if I don't believe in it? Okay. So, so I just kept chipping away, chipping away, chipping away.

And here again, uh, I've just been in the right place at the right time, surrounded by the right people. Okay. Like with the, like a myth, the hero never accomplish their task alone. They always have assistance from some sort of guide, some sort of mentor. They say, they say only you alone can do it, but you can't do it alone.

Okay.

audioKateShepherd21056285803: So how do you let that help in? I mean, a lot of people who've gone through trauma and who have those self-worth issues actually have a really hard time receiving help. Whether it's from, you know, I've talked to a lot of people recently who have like an ancestor practice who talk to like, sort of the great beyond and are asking for, but even that's hard to ask for help if you don't feel you're worthy of anything,

audiokwamescruggs11056285803: Yeah. Wow.

Wow. And I'm laughing to keep from crying. The first myth we do is the water of life with what the youth first myth we do water of life because in this myth, the king is sick. And when the king is sick, the whole village is sick. Okay, so you identify what's the king in your life was most important.

And he has three sons and then they're sitting on a castle steps crying. Okay. Because their father, the king is sick and this old man walks by and because he sees them crying, he stops. Okay. And he asked him what's wrong. And so the myth goes on and on and on. It's like we tell the youth, um, if you sitting on those steps acting like everything is cool when it's not that old man, just going to keep walking by.

All right. So. That's what I did for years. I didn't let people know something was wrong. But you have to, you gotta let somebody know something's wrong. So like alchemy, we're in our 21st year. This is the first year. We've ever asked for money. This is the first year in 20 years that we have ever had like a fundraiser,

my first time ever, because I'm not comfortable asking for things. Okay. And then in the water of life myth too, uh, the youngest son gets off his horse and admits that he does not know where he's going. Okay. And, uh, yeah, that's not easy to do. That's not easy to do. Uh, but I've learned to do it.

audioKateShepherd21056285803: How did you learn to do it? How did you do that?

audiokwamescruggs11056285803: How did I do? I wear my feelers on my sleeve. Okay, so I'm really okay sharing like personal stories and that sort of thing. But as far as asking somebody for money, I wasn't cool with that. So those are kind of two separate

things to me. I've always, I've always been cool sharing personal stories, but asking for help.

That's two different things. , but I've got two people on my fundraising team kind of make me, you know,

so

that

audioKateShepherd21056285803: It helps. It does. I have found, and I'm sure this is probably a universal human thing. I have found it's easier to ask for help when I'm using it to be in service to something else.

audiokwamescruggs11056285803: Yeah, it was even difficult then, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And so, so talking about the quotes, uh, they say he who conceals his disease cannot expect to be cured. Okay. So it's just, and I don't know if it's just, I don't know if it was growing up. I grew up lower middle class. Okay. I grew up lower middle. So I never really had to ask for anything.

I felt guilty because, uh, I had a baseball. Glove and back. My neighbors didn't. I felt guilty when a young and a girl all black neighborhood, but it was different back then because here again, good year, you know, BF good, rich, firestorm, general time, all the, you know, it was rubber capital of the world. So jobs are okay.

And then you had two parent families. But I remember feeling guilty because I'm drinking out of glasses and my neighbor is drinking out of mayonnaise jars, you know. So, um, and then, and then I remember playing baseball and how you had to raise money to, uh, go door to door and raise money to buy your uniforms.

And I remember my mom never made me do that. Okay. Cause she ain't want me going to ask people for money. And I think I could be wrong, but I kind of think that's where it stems from. Uh, and just being. Being black back in that period and not wanting to beg, not wanting to beg. Okay, so I think that's where it stems from.

audioKateShepherd21056285803: Yeah. And like you said, you've internalized a lot of that stuff. So yeah, because, so what did, what does the myth tell you? What did myths tell you about, about, uh, about asking, about asking for help?

audiokwamescruggs11056285803: That's how, here again, if you, if you sitting on them council steps, acting like everything is cool, that old man gonna walk by. So you gotta let, you gotta let people know something is wrong. You have to confide in people. , it's far easier said than done , so, you know, talking about like, hey, I'm 66 years old and still, I still feel like I don't measure up. Okay. Despite, despite my education, accomplishments. I'm still a struggle with social anxiety. Okay. And I can't hide my social anxiety. So I really don't go places by myself. Okay. It's, it's uncomfortable for me to walk in places by myself and be by myself because I, you know, still feel like I'm being judged and I'm less than despite.

I know it makes no sense,

but yeah, at 66 years old, I still feel like I don't measure up because of the color of my skin.

audioKateShepherd21056285803: that really hurts my heart and it does make sense, actually, like, there's, you know, when I think about the thing that's, you know, peering out of my eyes and the thing that's peering out of your eyes, like the, what we really are, the, that presence, that awareness, our beingness. That part of us doesn't, doesn't know time and bounds.

And like, I can think back to, you know, my first love at 15 years old and I'm 47 and I can still feel the, like, that part of me doesn't know time. And, you know, And is still experiencing and can draw on those memories as though there's a timelessness there, right? And so the, the, so the, if the same can be said for pain and the, the hurt that we feel and the ways that we've protected ourselves.

And to me, it actually makes really perfect sense that that is still really alive for you. And I'm, I'm really glad that you've got your, your myths and that, that, that, that they've healed you so much in the music that goes with them. And, but I'm also really sorry that you had to live that. I'm sorry.

audiokwamescruggs11056285803: I appreciate that. Yeah, I appreciate it. Sorry to, you know, and I don't know your story, but I'm, you know, you share some things. Same, you know, same goes for you. , life is challenging. Uh, uh, another quote, life in itself is simple. It's living it that's challenging. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah.

audioKateShepherd21056285803: That is so true. Oh, Yeah.

audiokwamescruggs11056285803: Life gets in the way of living.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: I wanted to ask you a little bit about whether there was a, particular myth or story that has been especially impactful across, groups of people.

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Wow. It's according to what you're going through in your life. You know, as to which myth, you know, stands out the most . , and it might not be one entire myth or the same myth it might be portions of different myths.

Okay, that, that, that stand out. But the one that I use most that really. Seems to get people is, uh, the city where people are amended the city where people are amended and most most myths, you know, start off with some sort of wounding or something being missing. Okay, or you're going in search of something. Um, and so, like, for each method is according how long a myth is, but we might have anywhere 20 to 30 questions.

The questions are designed to have you, to get your, get to know yourself better. Okay? And, and also to listen to others. 'cause when you're in, when you're in that group setting, they're going around and they gotta answer those questions.

What you find, what you find out is in a group setting, you've come to find out that that rain does not fall on one roof alone. Okay. And you'll see that others are, are dealing with their own, you know, their own troubles, you know, it's about having an open mind and listening to the opinions of others, because life is so much about making decisions. Generally speaking, the more information we have on the subject, the better decision we're going to make. All right. So, so that's the thing that's so cool about the method that we use.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: , you'll sit down at the beginning and you'll, you'll have your drum and you'll tell a story. Is that how it would work?

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Yeah. We just teleportions. Stop it. Critical moments in a myth and ask for resonates. Okay. So, uh, give you an example. Uh, let me see what myth I want to do right quick. Um, okay. Well, Okay. Like I said, in the water of life, in the water of life, it's a, it's a pretty common myth.

Like I say, in the beginning, the king is sick. And so when the king is sick, the entire village is sick. So one of the questions, what's the, what's, what's, what is ruling your life right now? Okay. In that myth, the boy sitting on the castle steps and they cry question, when was the last time you cried?

Okay. And, and over what, over what, and then, uh, another myth, you know, here again, this is living off of Michael Meade stuff and the myth of the firebird

in this myth, , the, the burning feather falls out of the sky, and , it falls out at the feet of this boy. And he could tell it's a special feather, and he's turning around, around his mind, whether to pick the feather up, and he's riding on this horse of power.

The horse tells and leave that feather where it lies. Because if you pick it up, you will certainly learn the meaning of danger and fear. So we'll stop there and ask them whether they're picking the feather up or not. Okay. And it's not so much whether you're picking it up. Yes or no. But we always want to know the rationale.

behind it. These youth send a circle by age, youngest to oldest. For two regions. Number one, it provides a sense of order in a chaotic world. And the second reason, because it's up to the oldest to look out for the youngest, so that when the youngest becomes the oldest, They'll remember somebody died for me.

And then we'll give them a chance to change their mind based on what others have said, and it's so cool, it's so cool to hear one of the youth change their mind based on what somebody else said.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: So if I wanted to do this myself, if I wanted to, cause I feel like this is like such a non threatening way to do really deep work.

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: It's beautiful. It's beautiful. Okay. It's beautiful. Okay.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: Yeah.

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: So, so if you wanted to do it, wow, funny, you should ask. This Saturday in New York, uh, we're having an introduction session to our method for training in our method, which was planned to start in January. , we're having it at Silberman School of Social Work.

So, I only, I thought only about 10 people would show. We got 30 people registered . It's, it's like, it's like a three hour just introducing people to our methods. Some have already seen the method, but then just talking about the training. It'll be 50 hours total, meeting 10 months out of the year, five hours.

Uh, per month, but 50 hours to teach them how to use our method.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: Are you going to write a book?

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: wow. Okay. Um, I have one in the works. I have one in the works. Um, And have already written like about six out of the eight chapters. Um, you know, what the, well I was talking to somebody last week now, it's been in the works for about five years. Okay.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: Yeah.

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: I'm kind of waiting until the right time. It's, it's coming.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: We don't. And we don't get to choose when the time like that's the hard part to write of just like you got to follow your bliss. Yes. But then also there's so much surrender involved in living. Right. It's like it's a.

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Okay. Now, back to following your bliss. . They say it's only, it's only two tragedies in life. One is to not get your heart's desire. The other is to get it. Okay, so be careful. Be careful about following your bliss. And then, uh, who's that? Uh, who said I took the road?

Let's travel. And that made all the difference in the world. Okay? The flip side of that is I took the road. Let's travel now. I don't know where though. I'm at. Okay. Okay. You know, with that, with that, with that, they say, one never rises so high as when one does not know where one is going.

Okay. So it's just, it's just about having faith. It's about having faith and, and wow, a common theme in myth. And like we tell the youth, if it's a common theme in myth, chances are it's a common theme in life. When you good deeds show good deeds do not go on notice for one good deed deserves another so when your intent is good when your intent is right, you'll be rewarded after some time or maybe a lot of time.

your rewards are generally directly proportional to the sacrifices you've made. Okay, so you just got to hang in there. You got to hang in there. I remember watching this movie. I think it was the best Marigold Hotel. They said in the end, everything will be fine.

And if it's not fine, that means it's not the end. Okay, so yeah, you just got to persevere and not give up.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: For a person who doesn't have the resources to take a 10 month program or, or can't read your book yet, cause you haven't written it yet. What might they do to get started on doing some of this work? I imagine you could read some myths and then do some journaling or like what kinds of questions could we ask ourself?

Like how could we dig into like, just as a, I want to say civilian, but that's not the right word, but just as like a lay person,

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: There's this book. . Laws of the Spirit by Dan Millman that I mentioned. I mean, that's a good place to start. That's not even a myth. It's just novel. It's just a short story. But finding Finding whatever, and it doesn't have to be myth. You find what you're interested in. , and then

start to read up on that. And that might lead you to this, which will lead you to that, which will lead you to this, which will lead you to that. And eventually you'll find where your interest lies. Okay. And then you got to follow that. Okay. And, and then it was either Jung or Campbell who said, in order to make the world a better place, you do what you do best.

And that's what I was thinking when you were, when we were talking before the interview, you said, wow, you found, you know, you found your bliss for the most part. And that's what life is about. Finding out what you do best, and then just focusing on that. It's like, it's like if everybody sweeps their own front porch, the whole community will be clean.

But you gotta be willing to make the sacrifices. Here again, leap and the net shall appear. That net is not gonna appear. Okay. All right.

Without you leaping. You got to leap first. You got to show faith in the universe. And when you show faith in the universe, the universe will show faith in you. Okay. Like, like Campbell said, when you take one step toward the guys, they take 10 steps towards you, but you got to take that chance. You got to take that chance.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: That's a form of asking for help, isn't it?

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Yes. Yeah. Mm hmm.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: taking the step and being vulnerable and doing the thing is kind of a way of

living, living a request to the universe to say, I want to do this, will you help me?

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah, but here again, you have to take the initiative. Okay, you have to take the initiative.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: When you're, when you're working with your, you've got your drum and your storytelling, do you, um, do you make up stories as you go? Do

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: nah, nah,

audioKateShepherd21756171811: know, you've got, you've got a, it's, you've got a story that you know, you're going to tell it. Yeah. The way you would sing a song that was already

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Yes. Yes. So basically, I remember when I was getting my dissertation, uh, getting my PhD I was gonna make up a story. I was gonna make up a story and they said, no, you want to, you want to use myths that's already been around because it's because it's coming from the collective unconscious, not your personal.

Okay. So no, we always, we always stick to the myth. We always stick to the myth. But I mean, in doing the myths, you know, uh, Obviously, I got a little gift for remembering quotes. So there's a lot of quotes. A lot of quotes are interspersed in it and then different anecdotal stories, but true stories or whatever, you know, then I might pull from some other myth.

But no, we stick with that myth.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: I'm wondering what you think, what, like what, what is your definition of creativity? What how, what would you define creativity as?

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Wow. and I know you're not supposed to use the word, but creating. Okay. . Okay. So, so, so, so it's just, it's, it is, , it's taking the idea and putting it in some sort of, of, of, of a, of a form. So long as it's, I don't know if anything is really like quote unquote original, because like I say, it's really nothing new under the sun, but you just take something, and mold it into whatever it is you want it to be.

And that's create that that's creating something. Okay. Yeah,

audioKateShepherd21756171811: Why is that process important? Why, why do you think it's important that we engage with that in our lives?

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: It gives us a reason to live and it makes life a little bit more interesting, you know, as, as opposed to just going, doing the mundane every day, you know, the, Hey, let's try something new. And I, so, so to me, that's what creating is.

It's trying something new or try something different way. It just makes life more interesting. So that's why I think it's important. Otherwise, just things would just be too boring. Doing the same thing every day, you know, day in and day out.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. There's a lot of fear for people around being vulnerable or create like creative expression feels really vulnerable to a lot of people. You know, like if you see the painting, writing a poem, right before met with you today, my nine year old daughter, uh, had

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Ha.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: it was the rainbow popsicle poetry party at her, her little grade four classroom.

And, uh, all the kids stood up, they'd been writing these poems with their teacher for, they worked so hard on these poems. And they each wrote nine poems and they bound them in this little laminated book and they colored it all in. And, but then they had to get up with a little microphone, a little wireless microphone in front of all the parents came and, uh, and we listened to them.

They each read two poems and they were all, most of the kids. I mean, there's, you know, the odd one who's just like born for the stage who didn't even notice us. So, yeah. Or who noticed us and loved it. But a lot of the kids were really, you could see there was like even almost some like fight or flight in them.

Right? Like it's terrifying, even from a young age to be vulnerable with

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Yes. Yeah. So when you said when you were saying that, my first thought I, you know, think is the fear is that you're being judged. Your work being judged. It's just creating. Don't worry about what other people think. Okay. Don't worry. You know, they say the birds that fly the highest don't fly with the flock.

All right. And those who were seen dancing were thought to be crazy by those of whom could not hear the music. But you, but you're talking about the, the, uh, The fourth graders, you said a fourth graders create their poems in the meanwhile. So that, so to me, that was joyful. But then when you said they had to get up on stage, you know, and like, wow.

So to me, give them the option, you know, give them the option. Okay. Do you want to get up on stage? Cause to me, that's. I'm just speaking for me

that that takes yeah, that that takes away from the fun of it because okay now after I create what this thing that I think is beautiful. Now you're making me, you know, get up here and share it because I think most artists.

I think, and I could be wrong I think most artists are introverts. Okay, so I have to get up on people. It's just like, you know, let's leave well enough alone, you know, so wow, you

audioKateShepherd21756171811: And we do that. We institutionalize that sort of, you're, you're, we commodify creativity, I think, in such a way that we, it does actually become a rational mind thing as opposed to a heart thing. Right, and then that is, yeah, yeah. What have you seen with both adults and kids that you've worked with

what do you think people are most scared of?

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Well, maybe I'm projecting here. being judged for who they really are. Okay. And that's the one thing about alchemy. That's so cool. Uh, not here again, you know, we're talking about being with these youth four to seven years. Okay. So, I mean, you create the safe environment and the trust, but the thing that we teach our youth, that it's okay to be who you, whoever you are.

Okay. It's okay. It's okay to be yourself. All right. And I think that's what. And here again, maybe I'm projecting, but I think people fear being, yeah, okay, this might be total projection, uh, fear being accepted for who they really are. And so they're uncomfortable sharing. Because they don't want to be judged.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: I think that's pretty universally true. That's true for me. That's true for me too. Yeah, there's a, I'll try to, I'm not, unlike you, I'm not very good at remembering quotes. I wish I could, but I fumble them all the time. So I'll find the real version of this quote and I'll email it to you after the show. Um, but there's a great quote, that says something about the thing that you hate the most about your art is the very thing that makes it so special. Like, the thing that you think makes you bad and different and wrong and broken is actually what makes you the special flower that you are. And it breaks my heart to think that we've, that we've become so disconnected from our ability to express and celebrate how different we are and how weird we are and, you know, that.

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Yes. So speaking of that, here again, you know, so many myths deal with being wounded. Okay, because we're all wounded in one way or another, it's just the only difference is the, the context and the degree. Okay. So it's identifying that wound in alchemy. It's about identifying that wound and then healing that wound.

Okay. Healing that wound. But like I say, it's the wound that drives us. Okay. It's, it's the wound that makes us. search for some sort of comfort. Okay. So we just got to be careful in what areas we're searching for that comfort. Uh, here again, this is Michael maybe, you know, if we don't, if we don't, uh, deal with our wounds, we will continue to wound others.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: Yeah, people who hurt, hurt.

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Hurt people, hurt people

audioKateShepherd21756171811: people, hurt people. See, I can't do, see, I can't

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: that way. You did it. You did it.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: I always fumble them, but my heart's in the right place.

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Okay. Okay.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: What do you do to stay connected to your creativity and your purpose and your, your sense of, of being?

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Myths, myths, myths.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: Reading? Telling them? What do you,

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Wow. You, uh, telling them. Telling them. Um, um, it's interesting, I really didn't, you asked about reading. Wow. I kind of hate to share this. I didn't start reading, I didn't read my first book really. I really won 18 for college. Uh, 18 what? 1984? George Orwell.

I think that was the first book I read when I was 18. And then I really didn't start reading till I was 31. . My wife at the time, standing in the hallway and she told me I should read the autobiography of Malcolm X. She said, she said, for everything you into, you should read the autobiography. She said, you should read this. And she handed it to me. I read the autobiography of Malcolm X and that's what got me started to reading. I was seven when he was assassinated, but everything, everything I was told about Malcolm X through the media was he was bad.

He was evil. He was evil. I read that autobiography. I'm like, they lied to me. I'm like, and if they lied to me about this, they lied to me about other things. And then, and then I started reading our history. And then, and then from reading our history, , that led me to the miseducation of the Negro, which led me to psychology.

Okay. Uh, and then from the rights led me to Jung. Okay, which led me to Campbell, which led me to myth. So that's what I'm saying. Find out whatever you interested in and that's going to lead you to this point, to that point, that point. And then you, if you keep searching, you eventually go find what you're looking for.

Okay. You'll know, you'll know. You'll know when you found what it is that really, you know, holds your attention, and then you follow that you follow that and then you, you, you don't give up here again, you know, 15 years to get my bachelor's degree took me like 10 to get my master's PhD or 15 hours of school for about 30 years in the evening.

And then when I finished my PhD, I stopped reading. And I don't know if it's like an unconscious rebellion, you know, but wow. I don't. And I, when I say I used to read a lot, once I started reading, wow, wow, I was reading a lot. Okay. Then, then, wow, just stopped. Uh, so what, so what keeps my creativity going is the myths.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: How do you know when you are, you know, 'cause we fall off our path sometimes with life, right? We go through ups and downs and we.

We can go through, you know, depression or ups and downs in relationships or we're like, there's things that happen in our life that we're, we eat better sometimes than other times that we're exercising sometimes that we're not. And when it comes to following your bliss, you know, if you were to look at that as like kind of your, the health of that, how do you know? When Kwame has fallen away from his following his, like, his bliss path, what are your signs for yourself that you need to reinvigorate that connection for you? And, and for, or another way of asking that could be, how do you know that you're, that you're following your bliss?

How do you know that you're, that you're honoring that in

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Wow. That's a good question. Uh, for me, I have to say it is been, um, it's been, now, I, I had some bad days, don't get me wrong. Okay. , I had some rough days, but. Even with those rough days, I still knew I was on the right path. I still knew I was on the right path even, you know, on those rough days. It's been quite a while since I've had a feeling to where, to be honest with you, I can't remember. I can't remember. Because I've, ever since I started with the myths, I've been cool. Okay, far. I mean, I've been cool because I know that I'm on the right path because I'm everything's about the myth.

And here again, Kate, this is all off the top of my head. Um, I think, you know, you're not on the right path if you don't want to get up out that bed.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: Mm hmm.

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Okay, now, now, now, with that said, uh, I'm late in that bed in the last few weeks. I ain't been getting out that bed.

Okay. Uh, uh, but that's primarily because, Finances. Okay. And I just, wow, I've been there before. And so it's just like, wow, you know, that was weighing me down. But even with that, even with that, I knew, I knew that, uh, I was going to be okay. Okay. It might take a while. Okay. I knew it was going to be okay.

I was formerly initiated, in the African based rights practice and that's where I was introduced to, the spiritual world. And I've seen things that, you know, showed me that there's a spiritual world out there that exists. Okay. And so I got a prayer.

I say every night, thank my ancestors, both sides of my family. Okay. Every night, and, uh, I just know they ain't gonna let me down, you know, to create an ancestors, they ain't gonna let me down. You gotta hang in there, you gotta hang in there, because after some time, or maybe a lot of time, you're gonna be rewarded for all the sacrifices you've made, and then here again, if your intent is good, your good deeds not gonna go unnoticed.

So, you know, even despite those bad days, I knew that eventually I will be okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then, you know, being the quote unquote leader of the organization, you know, even if we down 15 runs, I still gotta, you know, act like we can come back. Okay. . Okay. . Okay. So even if you don't believe it, you gotta act

audioKateShepherd21756171811: You got it. Yeah.

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Okay. But, but there's never really, there's. Well, Kaden, like I say, this is the second most challenging period of my life, but it ended, you know, that ended a couple weeks ago.

Uh, but I still knew. I still knew eventually I was gonna be okay. All right. And it might take, it might take a year, two years. things might not have turned out how you, you know, planned it, but you gotta have faith. You gotta have faith that, you know, everything happens for a reason and you might not understand it at that time.

Okay, but eventually, you'll say, wow, that's why that happened. So that this could happen. Okay. So here again, it's, it's all about having faith. It's all about having faith and not giving up, not giving up. Just chipping away at it every day. Okay. Like the myth we just did in the killing virtue. This, this, this.

Cub puts his paw print in the, his paw print in the paw print of his mother's every day. And he says, one day I will be strong enough. And if you, it's like the grass growing. If you go look at grass and just sit there, you're not going to see it grow, but you come back, it grows. Okay. So you do something every day.

Even if it's that small, even if it's that small, you know, you do something every day to chip away at it every day. Like they say, how you eat an elephant one bite at a time. Okay. So you can't, you can't, you know, expect everything to happen right now. If you keep chipping away and keep chipping away, you're going to eventually, you're going to eventually get there.

Okay. A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: Yeah. Again, you've given us such beautiful quotes and the one that I was just thinking of was from the one with the fish and

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: the fish. Okay.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: the little fish keeps saying, I have little kids. You have to forgive me. But she says, just keep swimming.

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Wow. keep

swimming. There you

audioKateShepherd21756171811: her parents have disappeared.

She's had a terrible life. She's got stuff. She's alone in the ocean She's got a good attitude and she just she has a two second memory, but I'll steal the thing She remembers is just keep swimming.

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: swimming. There you go. Just keep swimming. There you go. You said it all in a nutshell. All right.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: I Can't even tell you how much I have loved this conversation

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. Also, I needed this. Like I say, it's been a long day.

Yeah. So this has been great.

Okay.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: this has been good for my heart too. Thank

you. So I want to ask you for the listeners, how can we support you? How can we find out more about your work?

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Um,

audioKateShepherd21756171811: yeah, where should we go?

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Uh, you go to the Alchemy, uh, website, alchemy, uh, alchemy inc.net, A-L-C-H-E-N-Y-I-N c.net or Google Qua based, but primarily alchemy. Okay.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: And we'll put that in the show notes. I'll put that. I'll make sure we put

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Okay. That, that'd be great. I appreciate it.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: Okay.

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Wow.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: I think you're an amazing human being.

audiokwamescruggs11756171811: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. takes one to know one.

Thank you very much, Kate. Thank you for this opportunity.

audioKateShepherd21756171811: It was a pleasure to meet

you. Thank you.

Yeah, it felt like a real. Honor to have Kwame join us today. There were so many moments in that conversation that. Bolstered me on, you know, I felt really seen. And I felt really supported. There were also moments when I felt really sad.

You know, when he shared that he's always felt less than because of the color of his skin. Really broke my heart.

It reminded me that even though on the outside, we can seem like we have everything figured out. Healed and resolved and sorted out, and we know what we're doing. Many of us are often tending to very old wounds as we go about our day. Which is all the more reason why we need one another.

I love the work that Kwame is doing in the world. Gathering people in a circle, reminding us to not leave anybody behind. Reminding us to go back and be in service when we are more resourced and feel like we have something to give back

and I understood something in this conversation with Kwame. You know, when we do that, when we go back, when we are in service, when we share what we know. And what we've learned and how we've healed with others. We're not only benefiting them, but our own healing and our own. Sense of wellness and wellbeing deepens.

I'm also struck by his story. And imagining what it would have been like to work at a tire factory for 15 years. While going to school at night.

And we live in a time when we think. Everything should happen quickly for us. You know, you ordered something from Amazon and it's there the next morning.

But actually. When it comes to our life purpose,

There is no expediting that process. We have to surrender to it. And we have to keep showing up to it. And like Kwame says, keep chipping away at it.

If you take one thing from this episode, I hope it's the reminder that if you just stick it out, And hang in there. You too, can become the hero within your own story.