Ep 74 - Cory Allen: Break Through Limiting Beliefs and Reclaim Your Creative Power

In this episode of The Creative Genius Podcast, host Kate Shepherd sits down with Cory Allen—author of Brave New You, mindfulness expert, and prolific musician—to explore the journey of breaking free from self-limiting beliefs and reconnecting with the authentic self. Cory shares his own story of overcoming a traumatic childhood, turning inward through Eastern and Western philosophies, and discovering the power of mindfulness as a tool for deep self-awareness.

Together, they discuss:

• How to identify and reframe the negative stories we tell ourselves.
• The difference between the voice of creativity and the voice of fear or conditioning.
• Practical techniques to navigate the inner world and access deeper creativity.
• Why mindfulness is key to unlocking your true potential and breaking free from self-doubt.

This conversation offers profound insights into how we can learn to trust our intuition, listen to our inner voice, and stop allowing old stories to block our creative power. Cory’s wisdom will inspire listeners to start seeing the world as full of possibilities rather than obstacles, and his actionable strategies will help anyone on the path to self-discovery and creative expression

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Kate Shepherd:

I've always had this, , incredibly deep connection to intuition and creativity. And I had a lot of childhood trauma, and I think actually those two things are related.

I think we go in so deeply when we're hurting so much from the external world that we, I, anyway, I found it at a very young age and just thought everybody had that. And then as I got older and realized as I was engaging with people with my work like people would come up to me and be like, Oh, I wish I could, wish I could be an artist.

I wish I had that in me. And I was like, If you're asking for it, that is the part of you that is that trying to get out what do you, have it. But I didn't know I needed to go through a certain amount of growing up on my own to articulate that something that caused me pain to hear in other people and something that I could maybe do something about.

And so then I had this big epiphany moment where I was like okay, I'm going to have conversations about this in a like radio show setting. And that's why I created the podcast.

Cory Allen: Beautiful,

What type of art do you make?



Kate Shepherd: I have a nature jewelry company, so I'll go out into the forest and take little cedar branches or baby maple leaves, and then I'll use their textures to make little tiny sculptures and make jewelry out of them.

Cory Allen: Amazing.

Kate Shepherd: But I also really love painting. I have a pretty thorough daily sketchbook practice, with paint, with watercolors.

Cory Allen: How cool, I love that. Yeah,

watercolors are, that's I feel like it's an underserved medium. You don't see it a lot out there these days, but

there's so much possibility there.

Kate Shepherd: There is, and it's very, I teach a course called, activating your intuition and your creativity. And it's a very playful watercolor class. So that I use watercolors as the portal for people to learn how to, cause I really feel like intuition is just the yes, no feeling

like we can decorate And you can create a formula and you can all, but actually your intuition is just, yes, no.

And anything else is your mind and you can make them talk to each other. watercolor is such an immediate you'll get a no feeling right away if you mix the color together, that doesn't work. if you and think back a minute, you'll realize you knew already that wasn't going to work and you did it anyway.

but it's a very,watercolor can be quite powerful even just as a living meditation, not even just as an art form.

It's very cool. I love it. I think everybody should have watercolor.



Cory Allen: A couple of years ago I got interested in it just randomly and, did a lot of playing around with them. And it's, very fun, very meditative.

Kate Shepherd: You have a practice every day where you paint

Cory Allen: No, It's like a Zen Enzo drawing or calligraphy or something like

that,

Kate Shepherd:

have found diving into it, like I come in and out of all my practices, meditation included, like I'm not always a great daily meditator. but I find that when I do things almost get so real that it's overwhelming.

Like I get Too many signals from the universe, too much serendipity, too much that it's, I almost glitch a little bit because of it. It's so that I back off and I don't do it and, I think even you talk about that in the book about when you're a highly sensitive person, when there's all this stuff coming at you, the tendency is to numb it out.

Like I feel like that is probably a pretty

normal

Cory Allen: yeah, for sure. Yeah.

yes, and also thank you for actually reading the book. I really, I appreciate that.

Kate Shepherd: Yeah, I really enjoyed it.

Actually, so let's just get started. say, this is what I wanted to open the interview with, was just that I really enjoyed reading your book. And as somebody who, has been on a sort of spiritual, Exploration self improvement, for the last 25, 30 years, lots of therapy, lots of workshops, lots of meditation, like I've done a lot of that work and read almost everything that's out there because I have this voracious, appetite for that.

There were actually several things that I read in your book that were new, that felt

new to me, that like little light bulb moments and I feel like that's probably pretty hard to do because there's just such a volume of stuff out there in the world circulating right now.

So I just wanted to say, Congratulations. It's an amazing book. It really is a great book.

Cory Allen: Thank you very much. Yeah, and

it's interesting you mentioned that about in terms of there being like new things in there part of my creative process is allowing the. Naturalness of my way of thinking to come through without trying to shape it to fit something that I'm replicating in that's already in the world. And we do that creatively because it makes us feel not vulnerable . That's why it's so frustrating if you're trying to do something truly original as an artist or a creative person.

And my background is I spent my entire teens and twenties composing music and producing music and releasing albums. and I produced released dozens of records of my own. I've produced hundreds of records for other artists and bands over the years. That was like part one of my life. So the process of creation and. Putting into public things that I've very, familiar with. So everything I do, I see as an art piece. I don't see it as a piece of content or whatever. It's a creative project, the reason why it can be very frustrating, it's hard for people to find something really original and produce something that's unique, is that generally people look to what's happening in the world of whatever the medium is that they're working in. They look at what's trending, what's and then they have their classic influences. And they go okay, I could that's interesting, like I'll do something like that. And then they do their own version of that thing. The problem with that is, is that thing already exists. You're doing just a version of that and really true originality is scary because you make yourself vulnerable because it doesn't feel like whenever you have this idea that seems weird or you have this painting that you've made or you've written this poem that feels a little kooky and you're like, there's nothing really out there like that.

So this must not be good because there's not already stuff out there like that. Or people aren't going to like this because they're not already liking it. There's not, it's not popular, so I better not put it out. But that's the thing that you have to go ahead and put out there as long as it feels right to you because it's not out there. And that's how, if you keep producing work that you've. Really honor your individualistic voice, and then the bravery comes from, okay I'm going to put that out in the world. That's something that will hit and that people will see and go Oh, wow, I've never heard of this before. I've never thought of that before. That's really cool. But the feeling internally as a creative person trying to get there is scary because the vulnerability of Just putting yourself out there negative like here's something that is really my idea and there's nothing else I can triangulate it with What do you think universe, so it dissuades people from doing that, ,

Kate Shepherd: as you're saying that. like my survival instincts pop up. it isn't even actually just about cause I was thinking what's the root? I always go to the root as fast as I

can. What's the root of that? What's that fear about? That fear ultimately is I'm going to say something or do something or make something that's so out there that you're going to reject me.

I'm not going to have access to food, water. love, hugs, whatever, and I'm going to die.

Like that, I think that actually is where we maybe it was just a painting or a song but like physically, cellularly, I think, as far as I can see, that's the fear.

AndThey're like world leaders who are just like so absolutely horrible and crazy. But there's something about them that's so honest to themselves that they're attractive,

like whether or not it's like a good attractive or bad attractive, becausethere's something that we really appreciate on the cellular level when somebody just expresses truthfully themselves, whether it's good or bad.

Cory Allen: Yeah. And people that are in a state of suffering and anger whenever they have a public figure, particularly a world leader who is authentically themselves without questioning it generally because it's a symptom of narcissism or being a sociopath. But what they're doing is they then embolden the darker parts of a person's nature. Instead

of the other side that we're talking about. So someone goes Oh yeah, hate, vitriol, division. I can get behind that because then I can basically be correct in my aggression. I can be horrible, nasty and have no responsibility or self auditing and just be a, basically be a a rather toxic human being and feel not only okay with it, But also feel, holier than thou while I'm doing it, I have the

Kate Shepherd: Yeah.

Cory Allen: my research.

Kate Shepherd: And you can keep hiding. It lets you actually keep hiding from that other part, which is the, fear we have of the light or the, intelligence that's, I think of creativity as the intelligence that's animating the entire universe.

Like it's this, alive, Being that's in everything from my teacup to my paintbrush, to my heart, to my thoughts, like it's just, it's in the leaves up, like it's in everything.

And it wants to move through us and express through us as like this collaboration. That's, to me, that's the point of life. That's what we're here for. That's what all this is

about. But that, vulnerability that's required to step into a collaboration with that intelligence is that terror that we were just talking about, that fear of being, it makes you vulnerable and all these things.

won't have to, I don't have to face that part of me that wants to step into the light. Cause it's safer here,

In the dark. What did you notice in your work when you were working with musicians all those years about, is there a certain set of qualities or.

Cory Allen: Personality traits or what did the people who had it easier to express truthfully have in common . They were good at listening to what was arising and not arguing with it. It's like kind of true originals who create strong work that people are produced things for, even if it was their first record, I think this person's, they're going to at the very least, they're going to have a professional music career if not become a big artist. The ideas that are coming through, they're honoring and allowing those to move through, not putting them into the intellectual processor, not trying to change them to fit the times or what they think they should be. They're just allowing what's arising to come and then nurturing that into existence.

And I think that is the key to making all great work is getting out of your own way. the material that's arising in the stage of your mind, like in the creative space of your thinking, or whenever a creative intuition arises. that is gold. that's literally pure 100 percent non diluted, creative brilliance, which is in all of us, but what happens is it's so rare, for That beautiful aspect of ourselves to get out into the world.

It has to pass through our emotions, our intellectuals processing system, etc. And on the way through that. It gets really bent out of shape and shaved down and chopped up and remixed and swirled around with our anxieties and our self consciousness and the cultural imprintation that we're dealing with and our traumas and everything. and this goes to consciousness as well, there's a great, Zen translator. He's fundamental and, the earliest writings Of Zen being translated for the West and DT Suzuki. And he has this great and this is a paraphrasing, but he has this description of enlightenment is saying, letting the fullness of what you are flown to the world and that he's basically talking about this. This is just what we're talking about. It's about being present, allowing what's arising to simply come through and exist and flourish without trying to shape it and move it and twist it and fight it and living in a perpetual state of that flow. so people that they may not intellectually understand that or be able to put the words on it, but it's a felt process that I think they learn how to do that.

And they learned that, it's not always easy and that's also a part of the process. It's like whenever someone, a great artist may be, what is arising naturally, it may be painful, it may be something emotionally heavy, it may be something really vulnerable, but they learn that feeling becomes, it's just a visitor in your house, right? It's okay, you allow it to come and join you, you spend a moment with it, then it moves through, and then it turns into the work. And it doesn't mean it's gonna be how you'll feel forever, or it doesn't mean it's gonna define you, For me, either, I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, I suppose it's neither, it just is like whenever, my, creatively, mine is like a really strong, positive energy.

It's I feel like whenever what's arising, it's there's lightning on your fingertips and then also I noticed because I've been meditating for 25 years, I'm constantly watching just the general texture of my mind and my consciousness. And I noticed that the staging and the formula of my awareness shifts to very clearly, there is a state of awareness that I recognize that is, as present as I can get let's put it that way. And I noticed whenever that energy comes through in my mind goes into this present state that's where like the portal is open and to just let it rip,

Kate Shepherd: So what is that like for you in a creative, let's say you have an experience like that arise and you're like, okay, I gotta, get to my studio, get to an instrument. what do you do when you have that feeling?

Cory Allen: that feeling is, feeling is midwifed. It's, not one

that's, that just appears like I could get excited. I could have an idea. And I honestly, I think I'm maybe it's being older. Maybe it's just being like doing creative work my entire life. maybe it's also just being more mature creatively, but I can, I'll have an idea. And I don't really jump up anymore and go run off to the studio and start working in excitement anymore. that was me until I was in my probably mid thirties, but now when I have an idea that arises, it's very much a. Interesting. Let's put

that on to, let me just let that exist in my mind for a moment.

Let me think about that and reflect on it. And let me, I'll generally zoom out from a little bit and consider it from a lot of internal perspectives to try and meet the idea because to me, one of the things that used to, I think, make my creative output. Less successful was mistaking my enthusiasm and the energy of having thought of something for actually having a good idea. Cause I would

Kate Shepherd: That

resonates so Much. as a self diagnosed person I really do feel like I have ADHD that just wasn't caught when I was younger. I've often struggled with just I have so much enthusiasm and I'm such a doer and I want, and I get, and I have too many ideas and I actually end up finding myself really overwhelmed by all the ideas.

So when you said that, I was like, Oh, the dominion you have over your mind I guess that comes from 25 years of a commitment to be watching that

internal,That is an incredible perspective, so remembering that you used to have that kind of inundation and excitement and enthusiasm and puppy like energy, maybe, towards ideas, and the pitfalls of that, which are, I'm guessing, a lot of incomplete projects, right?

Yeah. What were some of the other pitfalls

Cory Allen: Yeah.

I'll go to the other pitfalls, but then quickly, whenever the idea arises, I'll look at it from multiple perspectives, and then I sit with it. And this could be over the course of a day or two days or a week or something, just keep it in my mind. And then once I feel like confirmed okay, I've thought about this from multiple perspectives, I've looked at it in the context of what it is, what am I trying to do creatively as a human right Now? is this the appropriate time for me to work on this and to put energy into this?

Because I look at the energy I expend very carefully. Because I don't

want to just

Kate Shepherd: Literally,

Cory Allen: relevant and important to the bigger picture of what I'm working on. And if all those things check out with it, then I will start, working on it in whichever way that is. And that's whenever the energy starts arising. It's like getting into the flow. Clearing everything out of the way, like consciously and really just being hyper present with that idea. And for me, in this case these days, it's writing, I'm writing the thing and it starts taking on this life of its own. And then I start feeling that energy arise. And then there will be states where it, I, it's almost I know how to describe it. it's an endless flow of the imagination. It's continuous to where there's so much energy and excitement and enthusiasm and force arising and the idea and the thing is just take, it's not, it's I'm not even connected to it.

It's just it's coming. And then I'm surprised by the little like worldly gigs and like interesting thoughts that are coming. And I'm like, Oh, that's really interesting. Like I wouldn't have, I would have never thought of that. Yeah. and then I just ride that until I feel the kind of the thing closing.

And then I know, okay let it land it. And I know, pay attention to when the energy starts falling. And I realized now wrap it up because I want to finish with that energy strong instead of just it. Falling off and then being like I got, now I got to hack something together.

It's it's the portal trying to tell you to wrap it up. This is the end, and so yeah, I pay attention to that. And what's really fun is that to me and Brave New You, I mentioned this at the beginning of the first chapter and I didn't go into it.

It's one sentence where I say There's moments this book where my heart was racing while I was writing because I was so excited. See if you can feel those moments. partially I just wanted to share that. Another thing is I think it's an intriguing thing to put into a book.

Perhaps maybe someone to go, huh? Interesting. I'll watch for that, but there are a lot of really big sections in there that were created in that state. So it's cool to have it formed into That process is like united in reality in the book a lot, which is cool.

Kate Shepherd: Yeah. And as you were describing that process. you probably remember when Elizabeth Gilbert wrote about ideas and the muse and like them being out there and then you like, they're just looking for a person

I've always, yeah, I've always loved that kind of idea.

And I do feel like that way. There's tons of ideas that are sitting there going, I'm going to wait for you because I want you. And there's other ideas that just keep going. But what you were describing just now really made me think about you've cultivated such internal clarity that you're able to consciously decide to accept the invitation of the idea

And when that is so conscious. I can really show up here for you because you

know what you're getting into and you've, this is a real yes. So I'm really going to open to you like that. I get the full body chills when I just said that, I want to ask you you've spent 25 years in this meditation practice.

When you look back, why did you think you were getting into it? And is that different than what you've now gotten out of it?

Because what you just described to me right now seems like a pretty big payoff,

Cory Allen: to be able to have that clarity about your internal landscape. Yeah,

Kate Shepherd: what you thought you were getting into?

Cory Allen: I'll give a quick example that I find funny a few months ago, I was with some people and someone said, I live in Austin, I'm from Austin, Texas. And someone said what's your favorite like burger in Austin or something like that? Just some question. And I was like, I don't have one. And they're like, how not? How is that not possible? And I was like, I just don't. And they're like, Oh mine is this place and dah I was like, okay. And they're like, I just don't understand how you can't have one. I was like they're all. I don't have a preference like they're all great, and, he's I think that's like really sad that you just don't have a favorite. And I'm like, so that's the problem is they're perceiving this lack of preference as a disinterest and a disengagement and a lacking of passion whenever, and so I had to clarify with them like let's, you're looking at this inside out, flip that around. Every burger I have is the best burger I ever have had. It's because I'm being present with it. I'm accepting it with a level of openness on its own terms instead of my expectations of what it should be. I'm engaging with it in the state in which it is in the state in which my mind is. And that goes for every experience that I have as much as possible. And that sounds profound. It is profound, but it's not a, it's not worn with a a level of theatricism or anything like that. It's very

casual. I'm a goofy bastard it's just that also while I'm joking around and talking about whatever I'm talking about with whoever I'm with all in the back of my mind, my actual experience behind the Actor who is me, who's being a human in life and engaging with other people, that's my, where my perception is, seated so that could be a perceived negative outcome of that level of clarity, but it's actually in my eyes, quite a gift,

So why I get into it, growing up in a, in an environment where there was, A lot of emotional abuse, a lot of manipulation, a lot of gaslighting, a lot of narcissism and, threats and anger and, using fear as manipulation, a lack of safety, all those type of things. I was very withdrawn as a little kid and just in my imagination all the time and I didn't, I was like hyper shy, wouldn't talk to anyone. I didn't speak to anyone except for my brother and my mom until I was like four years old, So it's a very hyper sensitive, just lived in my, and I know all kids are imaginative, but that's I just lived in my imagination.

It was very visual.

And which I later learned actually speaking of meditation that some people's visual cortex is that they're all tuned differently. And so have different, a different spectrum of ability to visualize and reclose your eyes. Fascinating. Just the human

Kate Shepherd: I can't see anything. I'm complete, I'm completely blind. out four years ago andI was floored. Like I really thought you have a tendency to think everybody sees

the world kind of the way you do.

And I like literally didn't believe that people could like close your eyes and see an apple or anything like, and for many years I, you'd close your eyes and they'd say, if you're in meditation, okay.

Imagine the white light. Cause I had all similar trauma when I was a

child. I couldn't see the light I couldn't see anything. And I thought I'm just so broken. Like I can't even see the light.

Cory Allen: Yeah

Kate Shepherd: it is fascinating how that's different for everybody.

Cory Allen: Yes. And what you just said has come up for me, I've had at least a dozen people over the years hit me up and say, Hey, is there something wrong with me? Because I can't visualize the

Kate Shepherd: Yeah.

Cory Allen: So you're not alone in that. And no,

there's nothing wrong. You have, you're excelling somewhere else, but you aren't aware you're excelling for the same reasons that you weren't aware that other people also do. Didn't not visualize like you.

so yeah, basically just, randomly stumbled upon it. as a teenager, I randomly there's no books in my house. there were no, Higher learning. maybe there was a national inquiry laying around or something, but that was about it. and, which really is quite symbolic. Honestly, think about the themes

that might attract, And, I randomly heard someone say, if you could have dinner with two people, who would you have dinner with that are live in this person?

This is, I overheard this like in public. And someone said Nietzsche and Jesus, which is a pretty good combo. And, I had that name just Nietzsche just burned into my brain. And so sometime later, like I drink, I always drink a lot of coffee whenever I still do. But whenever I was growing up, like even as a little kid, I drank like a shitload of coffee. my mom actually used to give me coffee in a sippy cup. That's how, how back for, cause I was yeah, probably because I was withdrawn because of the emotional distancing because of the environment I was in, so I seemed calm, but really I was emotionally shut down.

So I was given coffee to try and be more animated.

Kate Shepherd: Perky oh

Cory Allen: That's just probably what actually was happening. And so yes, I ran into him in a bookstore getting some coffee as a teenager. I saw this name Nietzsche on the back of a book as I walked by. And I was like, there's that name. It's like sharp, like the edge of a knife.

That sounds awesome. I want to check it out. Anyway, at the time, of course, you can imagine, maybe you experienced some of the same things. I had a major problem with authority. I was hyper forced into hyper independence all this type of stuff. I was like a totally into death metal as well at the same time. so got this book, I opened it up and I just looked at it and it totally blew my mind because the isolation I felt, the structure, which is like really abstract, complicated things broken down into like succinct, Sentences and ideas. It's like a funnel and so I didn't have anyone in my world to relate to that.

I could really talk about because I could talk about the small things, but whenever I would try and talk about what I actually think it was just like went into the ether, and it just made me feel weird and awkward. So anyway, reading, Nietzsche. I was like, wow, this is how I think.

It's not what I think, but it's the math of how I think. And I did agree with a lot of the

stuff in there. then I got obsessed with Western philosophy and again I realized later as an adult, that what I was doing was practicing avoidance, shutting off the outside world and sinking deep into this distraction, this kind of fantasy world where I just read Western philosophy for hours and hours a day. at the same time, I started playing guitar. So I would play guitar for four hours a day and then read philosophy for four hours a day. after I read, A lot of the kind of Western canon, I became aware of Eastern philosophy. I went over and picked up a book by, if memory serves, this is like almost 30 years ago, but if memory serves, the fellow I mentioned earlier, D.

T. Suzuki, he wrote a book called Essays in Zen Buddhism, that I picked up because the cover was really cool looking to me. And I looked at it and I was like, okay, this is what I think and how I think this is both. This is the intuitive sense of equanimity and skillfulness and compassion and inward looking that I was trying to figure out, what is the structure of that?

How do you, I, but I could feel all those things trying to make sense, and that started pulling it together. That was the first step in pulling it together. And I went just bananas on Eastern wisdom traditions. everything from, and really in this anti authoritarian and creative, explorative type of mindset which I still have. I want spiritual eclecticism in the sense that I would got really obsessed with Buddhism because I found it fascinating and useful, but I also was really interested in Hinduism and like Sufism. I was reading like Alistair Crowley I would read, any type of mystical thing I could find as well because I was just like, let me put myself in the laboratory and experiment with my brain, see how my consciousness changes and then proceed from there.

I'll keep building my own formula and system. And so I started reading about meditation in these books and this, of course, is in the nineties before there was YouTube and all of that. So there's no top 10 list of here's how to meditate.

It's just like long, sprawling sentences that never paragraphs that never have return breaks that are right around the ideas that are also translations. Let's keep in mind that right around the ideas of method. And yeah, so I found Theravada and Buddhism fascinating, like the classical form of, translations from the Pali Canon and commentaries, I would read and hundreds of pages of all of that stuff, trying to just understand the root source that you mentioned earlier.

I like getting to the root. so I read all that stuff and I just started practicing like meditation, just trying to experiment and figure it out and see, what it was. And, so I sought it out of curiosity because I became fascinated with consciousness in the mind, but also because I knew it was supposed to be like, I thought, Oh, this must be like relaxing or something. and then the big brain, adolescent, cocky part of me at the time was like, and it's supposed to make you like really wise. And so that would be cool, and so basically what I started doing is I had, I'm sure you've probably can share this experience. it's I had just horrible anxiety.

Perpetually fight or flight mode tension. the body was, I was always tense. I was always scared and like on defensive

Kate Shepherd: people.

Cory Allen: life. I remember I would lay down and I started like breathing. I would just take like a big inhale and exhale and relax all the muscles in my body as much as I could and take another inhale and exhale and just keep relaxing all the muscles in my body. A decade later, I learned that's actually a technique called PMR, which is progressive muscle relaxation, which is a way to undo and help treat trauma. But the more that I did, accompanied the breathing and applied the muscle relaxation with it. I noticed, I felt the shift and, my anxiety, it started slowly calming down and relaxing.

And I felt whenever because I was like looking inward or learning how to do as I started practicing that, I started noticing that, the potential for intentionality in present moment became possible. So instead of just reacting to my life, reacting out of fear or defensiveness, or what would manifest as, sarcasm or whatever just playing all the games of, fear and trauma and whatnot, I realized that, Oh, you can actually change those in the present moment.

Like it doesn't feel good to be that way, but I'm this way because I'm scared and, I'm really sad and I feel like I'm in a lot of pain. I can recognize what I'm feeling if I pay more attention to the present and instead of just doing the stuff and then later post event processing and go, I feel like an asshole for saying that or that whatever I can actually notice what's happening in the present and direct it. As much as I can to be who I want there and that was what was really attractive to me about it was gaining the sense of sovereignty and control and along with that in the calmness that came with it and along with that, this keeps coming up for me is, I've probably done like 30 or 40 podcasts in the last month, for the book. And it's an interesting type of self reflection because, having a different person just ask you questions for an hour for multiple times a day for a month straight it's for someone like me, and I'm sure for anyone, but for someone like me, who's always in a reflective state of mind, I'm just watching what themes are continuously happening over time.

And in one minute. it's interesting to me and I blew my mind earlier today, but it's like curiosity is the one that really seemed to be, what saved me because I'm so fascinated with really everything, but really it's the mind and our conscious experience. In the meditation and in those traditions, I was reading about the curiosity of the thing which is broadcasting the frequency of your awareness, like your consciousness, to be able to go into that and to change that, which then changes your experience of the objective world was like, And is 30 years later, just mind blown.

And I was so curious about it, that's where the meditation also went was like, I want to go deeper and deeper and deeper and find what's, who's the man behind, I want to know what's going on in there and what, where's the bottom? Is there a bottom? What, in that?

Kate Shepherd: So that curiosity really drove me to just continue going deep into it along with feeling the benefits. So how do we do that? I think a lot of us get stuck. Like I mentioned it earlier about the manifestation industry. There's a whole. really gross, slimy world of people who have their shingle out saying, they'll teach you how to, broadcast the right energy so that you can get what you

want from the universe

And there's enough of what they're saying. That's like kind of the right formula that people get hooked into it. Cause it sounds true.

is, and you say this in the book about how it's that whole flow of your thoughts become your actions and your actions create the reactions from the world around you.

And that's the feedback loop. It isn't some magical sparkly, invisible disco ball in the sky of if you just feel the right thing about the Ferrari like that's not it, but how do you do that in a mindful way, how do you get in there and find out what you really are so that you can express that fully in the world?

And I realize that's a big question for when we have 20 minutes left, but that feels like to me the only question that's worth, because we're yearning for that. We're yearning to live out our lives as the truest expression of ourselves. And we have all of this conditioning that whether it's childhood trauma or even if you had a great childhood and you just live in a neighborhood where there's pressure to have a second home or go on vacations or like we're focusing on all these external things.

to survive in our own way. And we get really distracted really easily, but many of us have been like systematically taught not to trust our own gut, to trust our own intuition and not even to really bother looking for it. And so how do we snap out of that and start looking for it?

Cory Allen: Yeah. You're so right. And I like that you said that even if someone didn't have a challenging background, it's like being alive is harrowing enough to qualify , and what's fascinating is that Suffering is relative so it's

Even if you'll just have a different set of problems if you had a, if you had the best childhood in the world, now your problems will be probably not knowing how to handle conflict, not knowing how to deal with

the less secure version of social structure, which exists outside of, so you have trust issues, you have problems asserting yourself. So it's all, it's if you're poor it's very difficult because you're worried about food. If you're wealthy, it's very difficult because you become isolated and lonely generally, because you cease to trust the motivations of people around you. it's just

a different set

of problems. How can we find that thing? To make it as short and simple as possible, it would be just listen and don't argue, don't deny it, don't fight it, right? Whenever we, you mentioned that gut feeling, that kind of gut yes or no, in terms of like your intuitive voice. If you have the self awareness and the internal space to be aware of that feeling to begin with, you're halfway There.

lot of people can't even hear that. That's actually why I start the book with those what I call the mental housecleaning is because we're opening up and one of the things I'm doing strategically under the current in there is I'm talking about all these different negative thinking habits that people have, whether it be overthinking, imposter syndrome, making assumptions about themselves or other people on and on, on self consciousness. I am talking about those issues. How they ma, how they, I almost said manifest. And I mean that in a literal way, not in a

metaphysical way. How they, come to be in life, and how we can deal with them. But also what I'm doing in there in a strategic way is they're also all exercises I'm getting you to do without realizing it, of paying attention to what you're thinking. paying attention more directly to what's happening in reality in the moment, and then learning how to navigate that consciously in the present. So I'm teaching mindfulness the entire time without ever speaking to it really.

And because that's what you need to unlock and start to become self aware of the internal world, right? And someone who has no connection to that whatsoever, that's the first part of the book is for them. but if you have awareness of that internal voice, if you can feel I heard it said recently, which I really like, the soul knows even if the mind doesn't, listening to it. wherever it arises, and then not arguing with it. That's

the main thing. It's every time that we feel this intuitive hit of Ooh, I should do that. Then we almost have this reactive thing of here's why we should shut it down. Here's why it's not true. wrong somehow. That's just, that's the resistance. And it comes from a lot of different places for a lot of reasons. whenever you hear that voice or you feel that, almost say go with it, like fast, just go with it whenever it arises. that can look like a lot of different things, but don't give yourself time to argue with it if you're in a position to do

Kate Shepherd: How do you tell the difference between that? voice of, let's just call it that creativity intelligence. And because my experience has been the sort of more work that I do internally, the more clever my ego parts get at

Oh, I should sound like this because then she'll think it's intuition. And I've gone inside before and just been like, I can't, I legitimately can't tell the difference right now between, and I'm an incredibly intuitive person.



stuff about how the universe works. Like I know, I just know so much. Like I'm incredibly attuned into something, but yet there are times when I just cannot, especially when it has to do with directing my own life.

Cory Allen: Yes.

Kate Shepherd: but so are there ways that you can start to tease apart when it's gut and when it's ego

Cory Allen: Yeah, I would say like my solution to that would be to write it down and then don't look at it for a couple of days.

So basically, whatever the thought is that you're struggling with, or maybe you're trying to make a decision between two things, write them both down and then put it in an envelope and stick it in your desk. And then don't look at it. Wait a couple of days or a week or whatever your timeline is and then go back and look at it. And what's crazy is that it will probably make you laugh because it was that serious.

the reason for that is that we often mistake our emotional

response with the idea or the thing that we're thinking about.

Kate Shepherd: Yeah.

Cory Allen: if there's an idea that isn't that the stakes aren't that high, but for some reason we're feeling fear, anxiety around it, it's going to color and, make it to where the idea is unclear. And so we can't figure out like which way is right, because we're basically the focus of our the, logical part of our mind that would make a decision can't get its bearings because the emotion is so strong generally.

And so if you write it down, what happens is that It gives the time that emotion is there, that's generally making you hem and awe and twisting you up and you don't know how to feel because you're feeling in every direction. That has passed now, that days have gone by. And that's the key to the practice is that now you feel like, okay, that whole feeling is gone.

Kate Shepherd: I felt a bunch of stuff since then. It's all been gone. Clear it out. And I'm just at normal state of being. Now, let's go back and look at that and see, how do I feel about it now? How does it look to me logically and how does it feel emotionally? I think that's very clarifying. just you're, you want to extract the truth. And move it out of the ecosystem of your, it's really, it's like the, fun house with all the mirrors of your emotion of mind, give yourself some space to let everything wash out and then go look at it again, fresh and see how it hits you. We have these two big levers in there. The maybe three if you're including emotions, but there's the rational mind and there's the more intuitive mind or part, parts of us, we do need them both. We really do need them both.

Cory Allen: yeah. I

Kate Shepherd: I'm imaginewhat is a healthy way of engaging with both of those parts so that one isn't just running the show and taking it, elbowing the other one out of the way.

And how do we, sit at the controls

Cory Allen: I think, Mutual respect is where I start with it. I used to look at the intellect as the most important thing above all else.

And, to a degree where again, really, whenever I was younger, it was because I was coming up with a complicated reasons in framework to deny any feeling anything.

nature is always correct, right? That's basically what it boils down to. Anything that exists within your body. is there for a reason. Like we have these senses for a reason. Emotions are a form of sense and information. It's a different type of information that our body is telling us than logical information. It's frustrating and confusing because we don't have a language that applies to that thing. So it feels very, strong and hard to understand sometimes because it's a different type of wisdom. So we need to not look for the, literal, Things that arise in our emotions, rather, what is this sense of knowing that's coming from our emotions? What is a feeling or a type of intelligence that is beyond language? And can we suspend our need to languagify everything long enough to be able to actually hear and meet that feeling on its own terms?

That's how I think about it. It's like a cosmic wind or something. It's love this person. It's like you're getting blown towards them or something like that, or you dislike this person. The emotion is like becoming wide and pushing you back from them.

It's like there's this feeling in this thing. It's telling you and moving, so I look at that emotion like that. And, logic is ultimately just it's the most beautiful processing system, but it's missing something that emotion has an emotion is missing something that logic has. And so that's when I say mutual respect is unlike gentlemen. We're both of us are, we're both here to, we're all here to work together. you all have your good qualities. let's work together do the let's be a team here, and so that's how I generally think about it.

I like to allow things to spend time moving back from side to side a little bit, just gently. If I have an idea or something I'm thinking about, I'll generally feel into it. And the best way I can describe this is I treat it like I'm tasting a glass of wine or something. That's how I can understand the, that those things, it works for me.

Kate Shepherd: It's if I'm feeling something about an idea or a situation, I'll be like, okay, there's excitement, there's a feeling of trust, there's a feeling of compassion in there, what are the notes that you're getting from this glass of emotion, and it'll just give me some context, and then I'll feel deeper into it, just raw, like what it is. And they'll go, okay, now that I have that information about it, let's run that through the data processor let's go, what is, what's Mr. Logic think about all this and then I'll run it through my logic processor and then I'll step back and be like, okay, now where are we? now, where are we at with this idea? can we talk together about this? can we meet somewhere? that makes sense? can we become better than some of our two parts here? And so that's generally how I deal with stuff, I give an idea or a thought or something like that, or something I'm experiencing, a little bit of time on each end of the spectrum, And then I'll try and unify and bring it together and returning to that thing of ultimately what intellectually and emotionally what feels, what's, the, I won't say truthful, but what's coming through that seems undeniable, how are those things synergizing together towards ah, yes, like this seems like it's correct, like outside of anything to do with me. This isn't my identity, it's not my ego, it's not my personality, it's just like when you look at the sky and birds flying across, you're like, yes, that's correct it's the same thing as ah, there's the emergence of a resolution after this thought or ideas has moved through these different parts, this is what should be, and then accept this is the outcome that I'll go with. Yeah, it seems like it's discernment. That's the witness's job. An act not to witness, but like the that, that thing that is you, for you,

it's almost like its job is to not only witness and watch everything and not react, but to react in a way that's in accordance to reality.

Like what is actually happening here? And to use all the things that you just said, the emotion, the logic and the instinct to, Yeah. Use discernment to navigate and go next. You did an incredible amount of work on yourself and had the, I think, great fortune of having a, an uneasy childhood. I can say that looking back now about my own childhood.

I hope that's okay to say to you.

Um,

Cory Allen: you can say whatever you want.

Kate Shepherd: yeah, but not everybody is online that way.

And. So I wonder why we were built that way. You said everything is built for a reason this way. Like, why were we built to have these systems so separate?

But I wonder why we were built that way.

Do you have any ideas about why,

Cory Allen: 20 years. I've talked about this quite a lot, Because I wonder about myself. I'm just like, how did The emergence of timelines between someone that had the exact same series of events happen to them and a similar nurture in nature situation and the era in which they were born and the geographical location which they're born in the same, cultural inheritance and everything But yet one person that had those same settings would become a heroin addict. And then another person becomes, a person like me. Like how, what is the factor there? And, I don't know. I think it might be random chance,

honestly,

I don't think that

Kate Shepherd: We

Cory Allen: if I really like zoom way out , I think that it's like

Kate Shepherd: hold

Cory Allen: there are,

the biological happenstance generation of

Kate Shepherd: Mm

Cory Allen: A nervous system They are all physiologically similar, but they are all unique and different. It's you go to the grocery store, there's a lot of apples. They're all quote unquote apples, but they're all shaped a little different. They have maybe a little more tartness, a little more sweetness. Some of them have bruises. Some of them held up well. Some of them are shiny. Some of them are not holding up too well. It's the same thing with nervous systems. We're just people that have flowered into reality the same way that fruit has. the chance part, is that the conditions in which the emergence of our nervous system formed happen to be predisposed in some way to being able to match up with the landscape in which we engage in challenges and how society and human relationships work, how human psychology maps onto what we've created as civilization, all of these things, we just happen to have the, a predisposition that works with, The random roll of the dice of how our human reality and what we've created on this earth as people happens to operate. And so we were like, cool, our resilience happened to be wired in such a way. And then we were lucky to have whatever we were selected for, Moving forward instead of folding in certain situations and then also happen to have, the, nervous system which was self aware enough to go this is the way out of this. This is the way out of the, this is becoming strong and becoming confidence and doing more of that. Yeah, that's the way, go that way. And we start going that way as opposed to, there's a million other possibilities where a mind could go the way is to disappear. The way is to like basically become self destructive and and all that. Or to give the power to the, traumatic experience as opposed to taking it and controlling the power and forging your own sense of self, throughout it all.

And I don't know that I'm particularly responsible for how everything unfolded. It's sure, I was there whenever it all happened, right? But it's it all seems so causal to me that I don't feel good about myself for anything that I've done, or for who I am.

I'm just that's all what happened. And I was just here for It,

Kate Shepherd: I, call that Grace.

I've often thought about I should not be living the life that I'm living right now

On where the trajectory I was on as a child like I should probably be very addicted to drugs and in a very different world than I live in.

And some of my friends, when we talk about this, they'll say, Oh, yeah you created that. No, I don't think I did. There was just something in me that knew left instead of right, And I do think that is just random and grace. And I'm thinking about, as you were saying, that one of the images I had was flowers.

You talked about fruit and I was thinking about flowers and we planted these zinnias in our garden last year. I always plant things with the kids so that they learn about growing stuff and we harvested the seeds. And so now we're putting the seeds back in the garden of all these little flower heads that we.

Collected last year and not all of them take and, but they still become seeds and they still put themselves out there and they still like right until the very end. if there's somebody listening to this right now going, I just didn't have what it took to become a brilliant person or I am broken or I am, it's too late for me, or, I'll never be able to have any of those things, like all of the things that we tell ourselves.

I feel a responsibility right now to just say, if you're feeling that yearning to be that, it is because you have that in you. It isn't. And I said that at the top of the show, we

And that is actually how I usually close the show, I call it the billboard question. And I, and so I'll, say to you if you had this magical billboard that Could somehow reach into the heart of somebody who was feeling this yearning to have this inner clarity and to have a better you Like I really I feel that you wrote this book and I'm putting words in your mouth right now But to answer some of these things right to help somebody realize like no You're not supposed to go to this life coach who's gonna help you manifest the perfect thing about it No, this is an inside job

Cory Allen: Yes.

Kate Shepherd: you how to navigate some of the stuff in the landscape there

Cory Allen: yeah. Absolutely.

Kate Shepherd: so for the person who's thinking, okay, but it's just, my life is too much of a mess, or I have this broken, weird thing, or I have this, whatever it is, but you have this billboard and you could put something on it that would help them realize that it really actually was possible for them to have a better them, a better you.

What would you put on the billboard?

Cory Allen: I would say the fact that they still desire to have that dream of something better means that the ember, no matter how the story tell yourself about broken, you are around incapable, you are the ember is still burning inside of you and an ember is all you need to start a forest fire.

If you want. It's just a matter of giving that ember enough oxygen to allow it to thrive. And so the fact that you still care, that you still go, God, I wish I could have that. Even if you end it with a, but dah, that means you're still alive. You still have the passion. You still have the potential. Your spirit is still active. And that the only thing that's keeping you from beginning to realize that, and by realize I mean bring that into being, is an attachment to old ways of thinking, old behavioral thinking patterns. Whenever you tell yourself, that I'm broken, it's You're alive.

You're not broken. If you were dead, then we could talk about it. But if

Kate Shepherd: you're still here, you're fine. You're doing good. You're here. That's a great start. Think about all the people who aren't here anymore or never were here. You're doing good. Yeah.

Cory Allen: Every time you hear yourself thinking a self limiting thought, you hear yourself telling yourself the story like I'm broken, or I just can't do this, or I'm not the one that gets to do this, or that's I could never, no one would believe me if I started trying to do this. You recognize that as the story that it is. It's not based in reality. It's not based in truth. And then once you recognize that negative story, you then point your attention to the actual passion that the negative story was trying to block. You return your awareness to what was the thing that brought that negative story up? And then you can clarify it more and more. And eventually, you'll start being able to work towards it. And you'll start being able to move into it, because you break the spell. of that negative story. And it only takes a little bit. It takes one little success to prove to yourself that something different is possible, for example, if you feel bad about your appearance, you don't feel attractive or good or whatever. And then you go I guess I'll go, maybe I'll get like some new clothes, And, You wear those clothes yeah, I feel a little bit better, like I feel, a little bit of swagger on now. That's huge. It seems small, but here's the thing is like, life is mostly small little moments like that. So they all matter and they all add up. And so the second that you do that, it's a huge win because what's happened is that You've recognized something that was making you unhappy. you didn't realize what it was, it would make you feel better. You took action. And then you saw growth, you saw improvement. And once you just start doing those small things a few times, then that's where self confidence and self trust starts building. And it just gets compounded, and it becomes exponentially, it's more and more to where you go from I don't know if I can do this to, I can do what it is that I, whatever I'm imagining, and it's or at least at the very least, you can work towards it and this is a whole nother part of the book.

But what will happen, happily to us all, is that you'll have this idea that you want to do something and it's your soul's calling. And when you finally start it. taking I call it playing the first note, you stick your hand up there, you play the first note, and then you realize I can work on this, and you start working on it a little bit more. happen is then you'll realize that, oh, actually, it's this other thing I really want to do. I just didn't realize it yet, because I hadn't through the process of going through the little, train stations of other things to get to the real thing that you couldn't have realized you wanted until you went through these other diversions first.

Kate Shepherd: You pointed to something really important right there about using the thing that you're trying to block as a

map.

Cory Allen: Yes,

Kate Shepherd: As, right? It's Oh, that thing that I'm like, that's a red light for me. Or, Oh, why what's behind there? almost like a little hit. And that reminds me, where you're talking about how, our thoughts seem to seem like they come from somewhere else.

And so they have this sort of automatic feeling of

Cory Allen: Yeah.

Kate Shepherd: because they seem like they're coming from somewhere else. And so we just feel this like blind compulsion to follow them.

Cory Allen: Awesome.

Kate Shepherd: I've never, seen that anywhere. I never, it was so obvious as soon as I read it, but I was, it was just one of those amazing light bulb moment.

And there were so many other of those. I can't list them all here right now, but I wanted to give you an opportunity to tell people listening what the experience of reading your book might be like for them.

Cory Allen: Thank you for sharing that. That's, fascinating to me, just my curiosity to hear, a thought that clicked for you. and again, I mentioned my problem with authority earlier. So you can see that's

whenever I was drilling inward in my meditation, journey, at one point, I was like, Oh, now that I've, gotten over the authority of my parents and society, now I need to look at this, I need to get out from the authority of myself,

Kate Shepherd: It's probably the hardest one, actually, because it's like a composite of all of them.

Cory Allen: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Reading the book I think is, I'm just quoting a few different people I've talked to. They said that they were highlighting, started highlighting sentences in there and they just stopped because they

were like, I was just highlighting the entire book, like

every sentence

Kate Shepherd: Yeah,

Cory Allen: it was just like thing, a little stick of dynamite because I, I look at, as a super quick nerd out on my writing process, wherever I'm writing, I look at every sentence and I go, Oh, I think where's the wow in

this like, yeah. yeah. why does this exist? And where is like, where's the thing in there that will turn a key in your mind? If it doesn't have it and it's got to go or it needs to be Reshaped. anyway, I think reading it will be, I think inspiring. I think that people will, find that it helps them think in ways they never considered before, which will really help them pop out of the kind of the groove that they're stuck in and the way that they're approaching things.

And ultimately the way that they think about themselves is we have this real hardened way that we define who we are. And I intentionally share a lot of thinking experiments. someone will re think. they think they are make them realize how expansive and how not only they can, but they should redefine how they think about themselves.

So I think it will be very freeing and exciting. And I really just hope that it will make a person not only feel more like, to have more intentionality in their life, but also it will make the world look like opportunities instead of obstacles to them.

Kate Shepherd: yeah. I really want everybody to read this book. And you can, they can get it wherever, we'll put it in the show notes, but anywhere books are sold, right?

Cory Allen: Get it

wherever and I like to say as much as I can, go to a local bookstore if you

can, I think this is the right podcast for people that will actually land on people's ears.

Also not only go to a local bookstore, but you go in there and if you get a copy of my book or if you buy a few thousand copies, that'd be great.

but wander around and look for something that looks weird. And there's something that has like magic floating off of it. Not something that's faced out somewhere. Not something that's on display, like snoop around, pull things out. And what's going to happen is you're going to find one that you're going to go huh. this has got some like weird wiggles coming off of it. I don't really understand it I don't really I can't not sure why I want to get this but it just feels Something pulsing about it get that one, too because that's the good that's the shit right there with music with books with anything creative Go into the place where it all lives and look for the thing that's throbbing and beating comes from someone that's a record collector and has gone in, working in bookstores when I was a teenager and, just going through tons and tons of old books.

That's how you find these

Kate Shepherd: hmm.

Cory Allen: to different realities. So do that too, please.

Kate Shepherd: And it's such a good way of practicing letting that part of you have a turn so far and it, the other part needs a turn and just be like, okay, you pick, what do you want?

It's Yeah.

It's a beautiful way to do that. Okay, so everyone's got their assignment. Thank you so much I've loved having this conversation with you and I've loved your book and it was great to have you here today.

Cory Allen: you

very much.

Thank you.